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	<title>Comments on: Catholics, Protestants, Grace, and the Spiritual Life</title>
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	<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/</link>
	<description>By Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M. Dedicated to Saint Joseph the Betrothed, Patron and Protector of the Universal Church</description>
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		<title>By: abolmore</title>
		<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/comment-page-1/#comment-371</link>
		<dc:creator>abolmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 08:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/#comment-371</guid>
		<description>Dear brothers and sisters in the Lord.
I live in Finland even though i am originally from Lebanon.
I speak very often with non catholics whether on the internet or personally or even on television.
About those which believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation and that nothing else is required,i dont understand how can they refuse all the very clear verses and warnings whether in the old or in the new testament , that faith alone without works is dead...We as catholics do not believe nor say that we r saved by works,or that we deserved to be saved and justified,on the contrary , we believe that we are saved by grace thrue faith but which faith?as Saint Paul said in Gal.5:6 ,faith which manifests itself thrue love , which is exactly what St. James also said in his epistle 2:17 and 2:26 , Thus also faith by itself ,if it does not have works , is dead , and For as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also.
And since i am going to speak very shortly , what about the numerous verses warning us ?Are the apostles and our Lord Jesus Himself which is the truth and never lies liars?or were they just making fun of us by telling us that faith alone is not enough ,and to prove what i said i am going to quote just a few verses...
Math. 7:21-23 , Not everyone who says to me , Lord , Lord , shall enter the kingdom of heaven . Many will say to me in that day , Lord , Lord , have we not prophecised in your name , cast out demons in your name , and done many wonders in your name? And then I will declare to them , I never knew you ; depart from me you evil doers...
I think that this one verse should be enough to prove to everyone that the sola fides is not from scripture , unless that we want to consider Martin Luther more correct than the truth itself which is our Lord . And unfortunatly for many protestants , this is exactly the case, whether they know it or not.
And since i dont have much time left, i am just going to quote some other verses only by telling them and whoever wants could check them...
Jam. 1:22
Jam.2:26
1 Joh. 3:15
1 Joh. 4:8
1 Joh. 4:20-21
1 Joh. 2:9-11
1 Joh. 3:14
1 Joh. 4:11
And it`s so funny that the protestants never ever mentions the virtue of love , even though St. Paul himself considered it even greater than faith...It is true that without faith we dont even have the virtue of love but it is also very true that faith without love is nothing . ( 1 cor. 13:2 ) and in Math. 22:36-40 and Luk. 10 : 25-28 and Mk. 12:28-33 , our Lord Jesus told us that we must love God and also our neighbour and St. Paul also continues and says in Gal. 5:14 , For all the law is fulfilled in one word , even in this , you shall love your neighbour as yourself...
and again in Rom. 13:8-10 , that love is the fulfillment of the law...
And what about indifference? in James 2:15-17 we read . If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them , depart in peace be wormed and filled , but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body , what does it profit?and continues, thus also faith by itself , if it does not have works is dead by itself.
and in 1 Joh. 3:17 we read the same thing and also in Math. 25:31-46 on the judgement day our Lord said that He will condemn those which didnt care for the others , and 1 Joh. 3:23-24 , we read , and this is His commandement:that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandement. And continues , now he who keeps His commandements abides in Him , and He in him . And by this we know that He abides in us , by the Spirit whom He has given us.
How could anyone pretend that the Holy Spirit abides in Him which is God which is Love but still dosent and dosent have to love?????
and in Math. 5:44 our Lord commanded us to love even our enemies and to pray for them and forgive them and in the Lord`s prayer , our Lord said that if we dont forgive the others there trespasses neither will our Father will forgive ours...
and what about the still many numerous verses that warns us to stop living a carnal life and to live a spiritual life otherwise we will die and we will not inherit the kingdom of God,shall we ignore them too? such as in Rom. 8:12-13 and Gal. 5:16-25 and so on.
I think that i`d better stop but please i ask you very humbly to check those very few verses which i quoted and think about them .
GOD BLESS YOU  all.
Bye for now</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=a93795aad06dba2f6e37239ccba91b34&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />Dear brothers and sisters in the Lord.<br />
I live in Finland even though i am originally from Lebanon.<br />
I speak very often with non catholics whether on the internet or personally or even on television.<br />
About those which believe that faith alone is sufficient for salvation and that nothing else is required,i dont understand how can they refuse all the very clear verses and warnings whether in the old or in the new testament , that faith alone without works is dead&#8230;We as catholics do not believe nor say that we r saved by works,or that we deserved to be saved and justified,on the contrary , we believe that we are saved by grace thrue faith but which faith?as Saint Paul said in Gal.5:6 ,faith which manifests itself thrue love , which is exactly what St. James also said in his epistle 2:17 and 2:26 , Thus also faith by itself ,if it does not have works , is dead , and For as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also.<br />
And since i am going to speak very shortly , what about the numerous verses warning us ?Are the apostles and our Lord Jesus Himself which is the truth and never lies liars?or were they just making fun of us by telling us that faith alone is not enough ,and to prove what i said i am going to quote just a few verses&#8230;<br />
Math. 7:21-23 , Not everyone who says to me , Lord , Lord , shall enter the kingdom of heaven . Many will say to me in that day , Lord , Lord , have we not prophecised in your name , cast out demons in your name , and done many wonders in your name? And then I will declare to them , I never knew you ; depart from me you evil doers&#8230;<br />
I think that this one verse should be enough to prove to everyone that the sola fides is not from scripture , unless that we want to consider Martin Luther more correct than the truth itself which is our Lord . And unfortunatly for many protestants , this is exactly the case, whether they know it or not.<br />
And since i dont have much time left, i am just going to quote some other verses only by telling them and whoever wants could check them&#8230;<br />
Jam. 1:22<br />
Jam.2:26<br />
1 Joh. 3:15<br />
1 Joh. 4:8<br />
1 Joh. 4:20-21<br />
1 Joh. 2:9-11<br />
1 Joh. 3:14<br />
1 Joh. 4:11<br />
And it`s so funny that the protestants never ever mentions the virtue of love , even though St. Paul himself considered it even greater than faith&#8230;It is true that without faith we dont even have the virtue of love but it is also very true that faith without love is nothing . ( 1 cor. 13:2 ) and in Math. 22:36-40 and Luk. 10 : 25-28 and Mk. 12:28-33 , our Lord Jesus told us that we must love God and also our neighbour and St. Paul also continues and says in Gal. 5:14 , For all the law is fulfilled in one word , even in this , you shall love your neighbour as yourself&#8230;<br />
and again in Rom. 13:8-10 , that love is the fulfillment of the law&#8230;<br />
And what about indifference? in James 2:15-17 we read . If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them , depart in peace be wormed and filled , but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body , what does it profit?and continues, thus also faith by itself , if it does not have works is dead by itself.<br />
and in 1 Joh. 3:17 we read the same thing and also in Math. 25:31-46 on the judgement day our Lord said that He will condemn those which didnt care for the others , and 1 Joh. 3:23-24 , we read , and this is His commandement:that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandement. And continues , now he who keeps His commandements abides in Him , and He in him . And by this we know that He abides in us , by the Spirit whom He has given us.<br />
How could anyone pretend that the Holy Spirit abides in Him which is God which is Love but still dosent and dosent have to love?????<br />
and in Math. 5:44 our Lord commanded us to love even our enemies and to pray for them and forgive them and in the Lord`s prayer , our Lord said that if we dont forgive the others there trespasses neither will our Father will forgive ours&#8230;<br />
and what about the still many numerous verses that warns us to stop living a carnal life and to live a spiritual life otherwise we will die and we will not inherit the kingdom of God,shall we ignore them too? such as in Rom. 8:12-13 and Gal. 5:16-25 and so on.<br />
I think that i`d better stop but please i ask you very humbly to check those very few verses which i quoted and think about them .<br />
GOD BLESS YOU  all.<br />
Bye for now
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		<title>By: Catholicism.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; «Ad Rem» N° 58 (1/7/2008): Epiphany Octave</title>
		<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/comment-page-1/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>Catholicism.org &#187; Blog Archive &#187; «Ad Rem» N° 58 (1/7/2008): Epiphany Octave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/#comment-260</guid>
		<description>[...] » Posted on the Theology Blog is “The Four Kinds of Magisterial Statement and the Various Responses Catholics Owe to Each” and a summary of why sanctity is important for Catholics but meaningless in the Protestant dogmatic system: “Catholics, Protestants, Grace, and the Spiritual Life.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] » Posted on the Theology Blog is “The Four Kinds of Magisterial Statement and the Various Responses Catholics Owe to Each” and a summary of why sanctity is important for Catholics but meaningless in the Protestant dogmatic system: “Catholics, Protestants, Grace, and the Spiritual Life.” [...]
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/comment-page-1/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/#comment-208</guid>
		<description>This was a good summary and it hits on the major issue of how we see grace differently than Protestants.

In my justification article I show how the Catholic perspective is the most Biblical and logical:
http://catholicdefense.googlepages.com/article.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=403940afbea36e0d8ac5a44e1571d2a3&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />This was a good summary and it hits on the major issue of how we see grace differently than Protestants.</p>
<p>In my justification article I show how the Catholic perspective is the most Biblical and logical:<br />
<a href="http://catholicdefense.googlepages.com/article.htm" rel="nofollow">http://catholicdefense.googlepages.com/article.htm</a>
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		<title>By: Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M.</title>
		<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Dear Pete,

This &quot;Confession of Faith&quot; was the product of English Calvinists writing in 1646, more than a century after Calvin&#039;s death. When I speak of classical Protestantism, I mean the original — Luther&#039;s (d. 1546) and Calvin&#039;s (d. 1564). It is the nature of Protestantism, being a human invention, to be subject to what all creatures are subject to: change.  As a result, Protestantism — even the &quot;Reformed&quot; variety of those generally adhering to Calvin — has numerous variants. (For proof, I offer the fact that &quot;Reformed Baptists&quot; and &quot;Reformed Episcopalians&quot; disagree on whether Baptism ought to be administered to an infant. Considering the dogmatic ramifications of this issue, it&#039;s not a trivial thing.)

Neither Luther nor Calvin believed that justification produced true inward sanctity. Luther spoke of &quot;imputed justice&quot; and made the vulgar covered-dunghill illustration of it.

Consider this: Calvinists believe that Sanctifying Grace (justification) cannot be lost, not even by mortal sin. (This is part of &quot;five-point Calvinism&quot; — the &quot;perseverance of the saints.&quot; Now, if they add to that a belief that we are truly made inwardly holy by grace, then we have the monstrous conclusion that one can be an adulterer and truly inwardly holy at the same time. No conversion from sin is necessary, because &quot;fiduciary faith&quot; is all you need (&lt;em&gt;sola fides&lt;/em&gt;). That concept of holiness is not the Christian concept. It is beastly.

Luther happily made this notion of &quot;sanctity&quot; explicit: &quot;Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ more strongly, who triumphed over sin, death, and the world; as long as we live here, we must sin.&quot; Elsewhere: &quot;If adultery could be committed in faith, it would not be a sin.&quot; See the above mentioned article for references.

You can find a brief critique of the early Protestant notions of justification, as well as Protestant criticisms of Luther&#039;s and Calvin&#039;s extreme positions, in the &lt;em&gt;Catholic Encyclopedia&lt;/em&gt; article on Justification:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=5e8062d959767176b449fd3809c88ae7&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />Dear Pete,</p>
<p>This &#8220;Confession of Faith&#8221; was the product of English Calvinists writing in 1646, more than a century after Calvin&#8217;s death. When I speak of classical Protestantism, I mean the original — Luther&#8217;s (d. 1546) and Calvin&#8217;s (d. 1564). It is the nature of Protestantism, being a human invention, to be subject to what all creatures are subject to: change.  As a result, Protestantism — even the &#8220;Reformed&#8221; variety of those generally adhering to Calvin — has numerous variants. (For proof, I offer the fact that &#8220;Reformed Baptists&#8221; and &#8220;Reformed Episcopalians&#8221; disagree on whether Baptism ought to be administered to an infant. Considering the dogmatic ramifications of this issue, it&#8217;s not a trivial thing.)</p>
<p>Neither Luther nor Calvin believed that justification produced true inward sanctity. Luther spoke of &#8220;imputed justice&#8221; and made the vulgar covered-dunghill illustration of it.</p>
<p>Consider this: Calvinists believe that Sanctifying Grace (justification) cannot be lost, not even by mortal sin. (This is part of &#8220;five-point Calvinism&#8221; — the &#8220;perseverance of the saints.&#8221; Now, if they add to that a belief that we are truly made inwardly holy by grace, then we have the monstrous conclusion that one can be an adulterer and truly inwardly holy at the same time. No conversion from sin is necessary, because &#8220;fiduciary faith&#8221; is all you need (<em>sola fides</em>). That concept of holiness is not the Christian concept. It is beastly.</p>
<p>Luther happily made this notion of &#8220;sanctity&#8221; explicit: &#8220;Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ more strongly, who triumphed over sin, death, and the world; as long as we live here, we must sin.&#8221; Elsewhere: &#8220;If adultery could be committed in faith, it would not be a sin.&#8221; See the above mentioned article for references.</p>
<p>You can find a brief critique of the early Protestant notions of justification, as well as Protestant criticisms of Luther&#8217;s and Calvin&#8217;s extreme positions, in the <em>Catholic Encyclopedia</em> article on Justification:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm</a>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/comment-page-1/#comment-150</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://brotherandre.stblogs.com/2008/01/03/catholics-protestants-grace-and-the-spiritual-life/#comment-150</guid>
		<description>Brother André,

I shared your article with a Protestant friend of mine, and he disagreed with your statement that &quot;the “classical” Protestant answer to the question asked above is No: There is no change of our inner nature.&quot;  He provided me the following support for his position.  Could you please respond?  Thank you very much, and God bless.

Westminster Confession - Chapter 13: Of Sanctification by Westminster Assembly

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ&#039;s death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. 
 
II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man; yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part; whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. 
 
III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome; and so, the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
The Westminster shorter catechism states justification and sanctification this way. 
 
Q. 33. What is justification?
A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace,[91] wherein he pardoneth all our sins,[92] and accepteth us as righteous in His sight,[93] only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us,[94] and received by faith alone.[95]
 
Q. 35. What is sanctification?
A. Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace,[97] whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God,[98] and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.[99]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img style='float: right; margin-left: 10px;' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=bf7f4923efe974822e7eef9aaef84f26&amp;size=60&amp;default=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif' alt='' />Brother André,</p>
<p>I shared your article with a Protestant friend of mine, and he disagreed with your statement that &#8220;the “classical” Protestant answer to the question asked above is No: There is no change of our inner nature.&#8221;  He provided me the following support for his position.  Could you please respond?  Thank you very much, and God bless.</p>
<p>Westminster Confession &#8211; Chapter 13: Of Sanctification by Westminster Assembly</p>
<p>I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ&#8217;s death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. </p>
<p>II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man; yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part; whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. </p>
<p>III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome; and so, the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.</p>
<p>The Westminster shorter catechism states justification and sanctification this way. </p>
<p>Q. 33. What is justification?<br />
A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace,[91] wherein he pardoneth all our sins,[92] and accepteth us as righteous in His sight,[93] only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us,[94] and received by faith alone.[95]</p>
<p>Q. 35. What is sanctification?<br />
A. Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace,[97] whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God,[98] and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.[99]
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